Hey, sorry y’all had to defederate from our server.
I guess I thought I understood what that meant, but I somehow didn’t quite grasp that we can both still subscribe to third party communities like here at technology@lemmy.ml, and continue to interact indirectly through those channels. So the whole defederation thing matters even less than I thought it did.
Sorry to be off topic but some people at lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works might benefit from seeing this explained.
this helped clarify something for me. which was whether it just nuked the replies to the lemmy.world/sh.itjust.works comment, or only that one comment. seems like it just removes the entire chain.
Ya, it also works that way if you block someone too. Unlike Twitter/Discord which show “you’ve blocked this message”, on here they simply don’t exist, nor do any replies to them.
Ok I see. And the reason for that is because beehaw has defederated my server, but my server has not defederated beehaw, correct?
Kinda confusing, I guess I thought of federation as a bilateral agreement for some reason, but actually each instance unilaterally decides who to federate with, and its not always reciprocal.
Yes. Think of it like blocking someone. beehaw defederated from sh.itjust.works so they can’t see anything from sh.itjust.works. not comments, not threads, not communities. 100% blocked. whereas the reverse isn’t true. you’re not able to get communities or content from beehaw (because they blocked and aren’t sending it to you), but their comments and threads elsewhere in the fediverse are still shared with you. This thread is hosted on lemmy.ml, so everyone federated with lemmy.ml can see it and interact with it; this is why you can see the beehaw user’s comment.
However, since beehaw defederated with sh.itjust.works, your reply remains unseen by them. sh.itjust.works could mutually defederate/block beehaw and you wouldn’t see the comment. but that’s up to your instance whether you wanna do that or not.
Ok thanks for explaining. I don’t see any reason we would defederate beehaw, they only blocked us because trolls were signing up on our server and spamming toxic stuff to their communities. Totally understandable, and hopefully we can reconnect with them once this platform matures a bit.
I know some people on lemmy.world were discussing defederating with beehaw because they were thinking it was annoying/confusing to have beehaw stuff show up even when beehaw defederated with them (and thus results in situations like this).
personally, I’m of the philosophy that it’s good to federate with as many instances as possible. and that’s how kbin has been doing things so far. other instances may wish to intentionally select which instances they federate to craft particular experiences (like what beehaw did). just depends on what you’re after.
Defederation should honestly be saved for the worst of the worst. What beehaw has done just doesn’t really make much sense. They’re intentionally blocking themselves off from the rest of the fedi, and I don’t think it’s because of trolls/spam. It seems like any comments that don’t fit the culture they want are seen as a reason to defederate.
I mean that’s fine for them, they can stay in their bubble, but it means their users could potentially miss on a lot of content as well; it honestly hurts them more than the rest of us. And the longer they stay that way, the more they’ll suffer, unfortunately.
It seems like any comments that don’t fit the culture they want are seen as a reason to defederate.
This is the main reason I didn’t create my account there. I like reading discussions in political topics, and beehaw seems to have a heavy aversion to that.
It’s that hypocritical stance of refusing to be political/choose a side yet not realizing that is also inherently political. Time will tell if their users are fine in a moated community or if it seriously hampers its growth to devolving into an echo chamber
I feel like even though this is all pretty chaotic in the short term, it feels like it could be a pretty good learning experience for the strengths and weaknesses of federating in general
Hey, sorry y’all had to defederate from our server.
I guess I thought I understood what that meant, but I somehow didn’t quite grasp that we can both still subscribe to third party communities like here at technology@lemmy.ml, and continue to interact indirectly through those channels. So the whole defederation thing matters even less than I thought it did.
Sorry to be off topic but some people at lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works might benefit from seeing this explained.
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but they can’t see your message. Check it from the beehaw instance yourself.
this helped clarify something for me. which was whether it just nuked the replies to the lemmy.world/sh.itjust.works comment, or only that one comment. seems like it just removes the entire chain.
Ya, it also works that way if you block someone too. Unlike Twitter/Discord which show “you’ve blocked this message”, on here they simply don’t exist, nor do any replies to them.
I’m not really in the mindset of blocking people, but that’s good to know.
Interestingly though, other instances can still see the full chain. I’m on vlemmy.net, and all of the comments are visible to me.
just an FYI, despite you seeing their comment, they can’t see yours.
Ok I see. And the reason for that is because beehaw has defederated my server, but my server has not defederated beehaw, correct?
Kinda confusing, I guess I thought of federation as a bilateral agreement for some reason, but actually each instance unilaterally decides who to federate with, and its not always reciprocal.
Yes. Think of it like blocking someone. beehaw defederated from sh.itjust.works so they can’t see anything from sh.itjust.works. not comments, not threads, not communities. 100% blocked. whereas the reverse isn’t true. you’re not able to get communities or content from beehaw (because they blocked and aren’t sending it to you), but their comments and threads elsewhere in the fediverse are still shared with you. This thread is hosted on lemmy.ml, so everyone federated with lemmy.ml can see it and interact with it; this is why you can see the beehaw user’s comment.
However, since beehaw defederated with sh.itjust.works, your reply remains unseen by them. sh.itjust.works could mutually defederate/block beehaw and you wouldn’t see the comment. but that’s up to your instance whether you wanna do that or not.
I love you for explaining this so clearly, I was actually so confused about this I may or may not have misinformed someone else, oops.
Ok thanks for explaining. I don’t see any reason we would defederate beehaw, they only blocked us because trolls were signing up on our server and spamming toxic stuff to their communities. Totally understandable, and hopefully we can reconnect with them once this platform matures a bit.
I know some people on lemmy.world were discussing defederating with beehaw because they were thinking it was annoying/confusing to have beehaw stuff show up even when beehaw defederated with them (and thus results in situations like this).
personally, I’m of the philosophy that it’s good to federate with as many instances as possible. and that’s how kbin has been doing things so far. other instances may wish to intentionally select which instances they federate to craft particular experiences (like what beehaw did). just depends on what you’re after.
Defederation should honestly be saved for the worst of the worst. What beehaw has done just doesn’t really make much sense. They’re intentionally blocking themselves off from the rest of the fedi, and I don’t think it’s because of trolls/spam. It seems like any comments that don’t fit the culture they want are seen as a reason to defederate.
I mean that’s fine for them, they can stay in their bubble, but it means their users could potentially miss on a lot of content as well; it honestly hurts them more than the rest of us. And the longer they stay that way, the more they’ll suffer, unfortunately.
This is the main reason I didn’t create my account there. I like reading discussions in political topics, and beehaw seems to have a heavy aversion to that.
It’s that hypocritical stance of refusing to be political/choose a side yet not realizing that is also inherently political. Time will tell if their users are fine in a moated community or if it seriously hampers its growth to devolving into an echo chamber
I feel like even though this is all pretty chaotic in the short term, it feels like it could be a pretty good learning experience for the strengths and weaknesses of federating in general