I’m almost convinced Nintendo wants to erase the legacy of PM:TYD. Like it’s definitely the game that took the most chances with the Mario universe, and in the Japanese version especially, it pushed the limits of what was acceptable in media at the time, and would probably be a difficult game to navigate rereleasing in today’s climate. Probably the same reasons we likely won’t see an official Mother 3 localization either.
In the American release, the other two ghost sisters just call her ugly a lot. In the OG Japanese, it was more explicit that they were actually misgendering her, iirc.
Bingo. The issue Nintendo faces is they’re going to anger someone depending on how they handle it. Like they faced backlash when they hinted that Shiver from Splatoon 3 might be nonbinary, and later clarified that she wasn’t. Same when they advertised that you selected your character’s appearance rather than gender in Pokemon Legends, Scarlett in Violet (despite the fact the characters are still referred to as men/women in game).
What complicates PMTYD and Mother 3 even more so is even though they include gender nonconforming characters, the way they are depicted in game aren’t exactly flattering by today’s standards. No matter how they decide to go about rereleasing these games they’re going to anger someone.
If nintendo keeps the PMTYD localization as is, or change Mother 3, it’s going to cause backlash because nintendo is more or less removing trans and gnc characters out of a game that originally had them. Likewise, if they decide to changePMTYD to include Vivi’s original trans plot, or release Mother 3 unchanged, They will facebacklash from people who take offense to LGBTQ people being in any form of media, especially in family entertainment which is Nintendo’s bread and butter. Even that aside, they might face backlash for how these characters are depicted and handled, because these were early 2000s games made by Japanese developers who used unflattering Japanese stereotypes for queer characters. Then you would have people who would want no changes to the localization because they just want to play the PMTYD from their childhood, and they would also be dragged into this complicated and heated debate.
Either way, Nintendo would be walking into a minefield no matter how they decide to release these games, and have probably elected to simply keep them vaulted. Maybe there will come a time where they will be able to rerelease/localize them with little controversy, but as things are right now, it’s a little dicey, especially for games they don’t even know will be profitable.
Agreed, but sadly to a profit driven company like Nintendo, they are still customers, and the anti LGBTQ lobby in the US is still very powerful, and they would definitely makes things miserable for Nintendo if they decided to go “lol, bigots stay mad XD”
You’re definitely seeing this with Disney, which has become the whipping boy of the republican party and are actively being legislated against due to their stance on LGBTQ inclusion. Nintendo being a foreign company who has a history of being targeted by conservatives in the past (as a video game company and a Japanese company) probably wants to avoid any controversy it can.
Ah right, I forgot Vivian isn’t trans in the US version, she is in French, which is what I’m most familiar with.
As evil as Disney is as a company, it’s been awesome to see them stick to their guns and unapologetically keep including LGBT+ characters in their movies and shows. You can be cynical and argue they’re doing it for money and PR, but we really need more big companies to follow their lead and plant their feet. I’d love for Nintendo to do the same, though I’m not sure I’ll even live to see that, sadly.
Japan is overall making good progress in that regard these past few years, but Nintendo is another story. I can’t think of a single company more paranoid about protecting their IP, and that’s really the root for a lot of their shortcomings.
Aside from the dialogue being darker than the US localization, Vivi is trans in the Japanese PMTYD. I go into detail on what roadblocks nintendo faces rereleasing it and Mother 3 in a reply to @testfactor
I’m almost convinced Nintendo wants to erase the legacy of PM:TYD. Like it’s definitely the game that took the most chances with the Mario universe, and in the Japanese version especially, it pushed the limits of what was acceptable in media at the time, and would probably be a difficult game to navigate rereleasing in today’s climate. Probably the same reasons we likely won’t see an official Mother 3 localization either.
Can you educate me on what the differences were with the Japanese version that made it push the limits?
They’re probably referring to Vivian being trans.
In the American release, the other two ghost sisters just call her ugly a lot. In the OG Japanese, it was more explicit that they were actually misgendering her, iirc.
Bingo. The issue Nintendo faces is they’re going to anger someone depending on how they handle it. Like they faced backlash when they hinted that Shiver from Splatoon 3 might be nonbinary, and later clarified that she wasn’t. Same when they advertised that you selected your character’s appearance rather than gender in Pokemon Legends, Scarlett in Violet (despite the fact the characters are still referred to as men/women in game).
What complicates PMTYD and Mother 3 even more so is even though they include gender nonconforming characters, the way they are depicted in game aren’t exactly flattering by today’s standards. No matter how they decide to go about rereleasing these games they’re going to anger someone.
If nintendo keeps the PMTYD localization as is, or change Mother 3, it’s going to cause backlash because nintendo is more or less removing trans and gnc characters out of a game that originally had them. Likewise, if they decide to changePMTYD to include Vivi’s original trans plot, or release Mother 3 unchanged, They will facebacklash from people who take offense to LGBTQ people being in any form of media, especially in family entertainment which is Nintendo’s bread and butter. Even that aside, they might face backlash for how these characters are depicted and handled, because these were early 2000s games made by Japanese developers who used unflattering Japanese stereotypes for queer characters. Then you would have people who would want no changes to the localization because they just want to play the PMTYD from their childhood, and they would also be dragged into this complicated and heated debate.
Either way, Nintendo would be walking into a minefield no matter how they decide to release these games, and have probably elected to simply keep them vaulted. Maybe there will come a time where they will be able to rerelease/localize them with little controversy, but as things are right now, it’s a little dicey, especially for games they don’t even know will be profitable.
I think it’s okay for people that take offense at LGBT in media to be mad, oh no, some bigots got angy? How about we ignore them like we should
Agreed, but sadly to a profit driven company like Nintendo, they are still customers, and the anti LGBTQ lobby in the US is still very powerful, and they would definitely makes things miserable for Nintendo if they decided to go “lol, bigots stay mad XD”
You’re definitely seeing this with Disney, which has become the whipping boy of the republican party and are actively being legislated against due to their stance on LGBTQ inclusion. Nintendo being a foreign company who has a history of being targeted by conservatives in the past (as a video game company and a Japanese company) probably wants to avoid any controversy it can.
Ah right, I forgot Vivian isn’t trans in the US version, she is in French, which is what I’m most familiar with.
As evil as Disney is as a company, it’s been awesome to see them stick to their guns and unapologetically keep including LGBT+ characters in their movies and shows. You can be cynical and argue they’re doing it for money and PR, but we really need more big companies to follow their lead and plant their feet. I’d love for Nintendo to do the same, though I’m not sure I’ll even live to see that, sadly.
Japan is overall making good progress in that regard these past few years, but Nintendo is another story. I can’t think of a single company more paranoid about protecting their IP, and that’s really the root for a lot of their shortcomings.
Aside from the dialogue being darker than the US localization, Vivi is trans in the Japanese PMTYD. I go into detail on what roadblocks nintendo faces rereleasing it and Mother 3 in a reply to @testfactor
Second.