they should be deleted to make sure we dont have this problem anymore

I appreciate you trying with this comment. I usually think I am patient but I obviously have a lot to learn in that capacity

I was going to say “living well” but I guess everyone else has put it better when they say no contact

Thanks for this post!

rolls up in desk chair alright what have we got here… okay… yep… seen this before… okay…

well FIRST off. communism has made MISTAKE

… wait until they get a load of this next move I’ve got …

ALSO! communism is JUST AS BAD as the NAZIS!

… my finishing move will blow them away …

I SAY THIS AS A PROUD SOCIAL DEMOCRAT!

deleted by creator

What I’m picking up is that it’s not a fully formed set of ideals agreed upon by everyone

Oh yeah absolutely. I think I was vaguely thinking this in one of my other responses. Fwiw I can imagine seeing basically exactly what you described as some kind of bad doomsday prepper negativist solarpunk, but I couldn’t get over the sense of it being a strawman, or, less dramatically, just the opposite of what a lot of people seem to think they’re joining.

I was going to respond elsewhere - I don’t think you have to be sold on these solarpunks and their ideas. Not in a mocking way – but I would say my encounters with solarpunks are like my encounters with squirrels. I see them very occasionally, we don’t interact, I take pleasure in the encounter, maybe appreciate something I didn’t before, and then I move on. Based on that you could imagine how little data I have on them

Without trying to treat you combatively, I am reading a lot of the same things in the way you talk about things.

I’ll say again that its possible you and I have seen different solarpunks, but I think you may have waded into a personally difficult topic, since solarpunk as a concept is supposed to be instilled with an awareness that certain kinds of collapse are certain, but that there are things people can do to make life worth living.

When you are dealing with people trying to find hope and talk about what they can do to live well and not contribute to the worlds problems, and you talk negatively, you are going to find responses like these.

Hope that didn’t feel like a pile on

I am not one of these types, but I did want to ask you if people wanting to grow their own crop always brings up these critical views for you.

I personally think “self-sufficiency” (may be the wrong term) in vegetable gardening is a great way for people to increase resilience against famine.

Others have pointed out the anti-consumerism angle - for small scale food gardeners, non-chemical pest deterrance becomes viable in a way impossible for manufacturers of scale, while they can still benefit from any increases in health of the food stock through both traditional selection and genetics research. Very not-Luddites, in that example.

I would also say - and it is possible that I just haven’t checked in on solarpunks recently enough, and I am missing something - but I always thought it was supposed to be the positive answer to doomerism, and to systemic or social collapse, and to the endless barrage of climate collapse news many of us have grown up with. With that in mind, I would question how much the aesthetics and how much individual examples may distort the overall perception of a movement or community.

Overall, is it an obsession with primitivism? I don’t think you are completely wrong. Aesthetics have a major impact on people, so it seems reasonable to me that you are reacting to a dizzying mix of politics and motivations, a lot of c/collapse -grade “this stuff is all gonna fall apart”, and maybe seeing some false positives based on your past experiences having to deal with fringe politics.

Hopefully all of that made any sort of sense

Thank you

Fantastic comment that speaks to so many of the contradictions of the current political line in the west. This one goes in my special little tankie book that I read at night under the covers

I mean, the theory is what people are supposed to be putting into practice.

I feel like your response is a bit combative and is not actually engaging with what I am trying to say, and it makes sense at the end of this that you have a perception that you’re getting moderated… because you are being an asshole.

edit: also, even in my comment I said that they’d be bad Marxists IF THEY DIDN’T practice the theory. I gave that to you, and you steamrolled right past it.

Interesting - thank you!

Thank you for everything you said in the back half! In regards to the first idea – do you think agile is half way to self-management because of its attributes, or because it is something to get people making software in a structured capacity? I live in a world of bad agiles and agile cynics, and so I wonder if I am missing some nuance you may have intended. I guess I ask because I agree with everything you have said but don’t see agile methodology as being important to spreading this message myself.

whuh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_and_self-criticism_(Marxism–Leninism)

I am being genuine when I say that this perception you have is one of two things- either you are indeed looking at bad Marxists, which is not what I have experienced on Lemmy, or you are referring back to posts that were being intellectually dishonest or violating basic civility rules, so were deleted.

That’s just my experience as a relatively new user

What is the best example of this?

I know I shouldn’t be disappointed it hasn’t already been said, but uh… rap music really came into its own in the 90s. Also, you know… was probably the peak as well.

Localized entirely within 20 kilobytes?

(pill bottle rattling sound)

(forgive the American POV)

What I anticipate is that government services will start to appear less in people’s lives, very gradually. HOPEFULLY people start to get a bit more involved in their community. Probably, our urban environments will end up worse for wear. Cars will trend rarer and rarer, and hopefully we’ll have some kind of renaissance of automotive maintenance to keep the good vehicles working (spoken as a car hater). HOPEFULLY we will get over the taboo of calorically-expensive human-centric farming (makes sense for some specific, small scale stuff where its not just a soil science and fertilizer supply game). As an extension to that last one - fewer (but not NO) email and service jobs.

Saying all of that sounds kind of rosy or very positive - obviously, the collapse would be bad, there would be hunger, there would be violence… but there already is, I guess? The main point I guess I’m trying to make is that collapse is gradual and I think westerners have seen some of the baby steps.

As a younger person I was a big ‘big government’ and bureaucracy advocate, so this isn’t a libertarian wet dream or something, it’s just informed by the change I’ve seen personally and a bit of extrapolation and history.