Personally I think not having karma limits is nice currently! I understand why they were used but grinding karma as a lurker on reddit was frustrating.
Nazis.
Hah. It’s probably gonna be worse here.
They main instances have taken strong stances against nazi shit. The Lemmy developers are leftwing communists even, and they run lemmy.ml, so I don’t think defederating from servers who’ll platform nazis is unlikely.
I doubt that any instance I’d be interested in being a part of would federate with nazi communities. They’d end up more isolated than on Reddit.
This is why I love the idea of Federation. You can give them their own space to shout and fling their faeces as much as they want but absolutely nobody is required to give them an audience.
You mean you don’t want an algorithm hawking them into your face after your look up a recipe?
Nah, they are going to their own rathole.
Yeah, fuck Nazis!
No, that’s how they reproduce! Isolate them! Or at least use a condom.
This is the big one
Yeah, but actual Nazis. Not “you disagreed with me or voted for someone I don’t like so I’m going to call you a Nazi.”
This user doth protest too much, methinks
Yes, fuck them, by the root and stem.
My thought as well.
Posting pictures too much, including pictures of tweets or pictures of news headlines.
Please link to the fucking article.
Yes! Many sumbreddits that actually had a point and were dare-I-say educational quickly became just twitter sceencap platitudes, on repeat.
I get it, easy to read and agree with and upboat, but ultimately just dumbing the place down to the lowest common denominator and burying anything with effort or insight.
Getting banned in one subreddit you never participated in for daring to have a comment (regardless of the content of that comment) in another subreddit.
I see the same shit in the Fediverse though. Mastodon admins blocking a server just because they refused to participate in a shared block list.
Someone’s going to make a script to ban a non-local user based on your remote posts, I guarantee it.
Which is important if you don’t want the Fediverse to become the next Voat.
Can you please explain?
Proactively banning problematic users before they cause issues is necessary. Prevention is better than cure.
Ah, the old guilt by association groupthink.
This is a ridiculous response. I think autobanning people who common “killthejews@ss.gov” is probably a good idea.
You’re making a strawman argument and putting words in my mouth.
Isn’t the federated model specifically designed as a solution to undesired moderation? If a server is ban happy, users won’t go there. Problem solved?
The fact that opening a new instance still requires some technical knowledge is a difficulty facing the fediverse, since the venn diagram of people with the time and know-how to manage server administration and people who are knowledgeable on community moderation aren’t always two concentric circles.
But that’s not a task that is asked of a general user, even if their goal is to switch servers. If you don’t like gmail, the solution for an individual is almost never to start your own email server.
Correct. What i’m saying is that since federated networks tend to be more community run initiatives, moderators are gonna be people from within the community and the final say on moderation issues is gonna come from those who understand how the fediverse works and have done the work of setting up the servers that everyone is using. Which I’m sure can and has worked for plenty of Mastodon and Lemmy instances out there, but I’m sure there’s also instances where the head admin simply went haywire one day and nuked everything. It’s not that the system can’ work, it’s just that it isn’t really designed to gravitate towards experienced trust and safety experts being the ones that important decisions fall upon.
I feel like I should clarify that I have nothing against any Lemmy mods or admins. They’re all being cool and helpful with onboarding reddit refugees like myself. I just think that this is an important thing to think about if we want this place to support more and more people and a growing number of communities in the future.
What mastodon server(s)?
Can’t wait for the screenshot of a Reddit post of a Lemmy post of an Instagram post about Elon tweeting some shit.
Oh God please
The comment “This” is annoying to me. Just use the upvote button!
This.
This
Upvoted and this’d
This!
🤔
The comment “this” comes from sites that don’t have votes. The equivalent here is voting. It really is that simple.
Yea that seems like something that started showing up more as time went on and more users joined. The trends and jokes did get tiring.
This. I usually try to avoid commenting just “This” and try to give more explanation why I’m saying that. Feel like that’s the proper way of doing it.
Personally I am commenting and posting much more now than ever on reddit. I want to transition to lemmy and see it grow as I refuse to use the Android reddit app.
I am not typing/imagining a comment and then not posting it here either like many people do on reddit. It seems like a good time to become less of a lurker.
Yeah. Honestly I’m way more active here. Granted my whole time on the fediverse is like a week or two, but Ive made more comments today than I have in like a decade on reddit. I could easily see myself not returning to reddit.
Agreed, especially with how new Lemmy is, it just really feels like it needs our engagement to succeed and get more people to join.
This tbh
Add back the hardcoded slur filter but just for these kind of comments
Shadow banning… one of the most Orwellian moderation tools ever.
I never understood shadow banning. Just IP ban if you really don’t want that user coming back
The original use case for Shadow banning was bots I think. To them it looks like they’re comments are still being posted, but everyone else it’s invisible.
It’s not about making the user leave, because of they know they are banned they’ll try to evade. Shadow banning gives the desired effect while not tipping off the user. So they post away, to nobody.
IP banning is such an annoyance if you are unlucky enough to only be able to deal with ISPs that do not use fixed IP addresses.
“Can’t post today, because another random person got my IP ‘du jour’ banned in the past” is a pretty terrible user experience.
And the pro troll uses Tor or a VPN and only needs to reconnect his client to receive a fresh IP address. I consider IP banning to be a very mediocre tool at best.
Reddit banned device MAC addresses, in my experience.
E: I said MAC address but I meant device ID. Just mushy brain today.
How is that possible? On the app maybe? Generally all a website can see is your IP and whatever telemetry your browser sends back.
Hmm. Well, maybe my deductions are off. I used only RIF and a unique email address. Caught a ban. Remade account, banned within a few hours. Tried a week later, banned in a few hours. Gave up for a couple months then got a new device. Created an account, lasted for months. So I figured it was the device. Static IP. Email addresses the same just with a random number appended into it with a plus sign like just+283748w9293@emails.com. Wasn’t trying to hide.
I found the site wide rule against violence to be arbitrarily and poorly enforced. I wrote a lot about legal history and specifically crime and punishment, and I guess my prose and rhetoric sometimes confused the admins into thinking I would ever endorse violence.
Anyway, found it hard to find your reply here to comment back to you. Browning in jerboa. Could see your reply in the inbox but clicking on it didn’t bring up a reply option, just took me to the full comments. Had to scroll through your posts, you seem pretty chill and reasonable and thanks for making so many comments. I think it’s really about the discussions rather than the top level meme content.
- Karma penalty limits
- Reposts
Upvote/downvote counts mangling. Just show the real numbers, don’t mess with them with an unknown “algorithm”.
As far as I can see, the real number is already on top of the post. And then you have the split of up/downvotes near the arrows. So the “algorithm” is just basic addidion and subtraction. Someone correct me if I saw something wrong…
I think they’re referring to what Reddit did with not showing them separately
Reddit has a longstanding reputation for being a hive of scum and villainy (like hosting the_donald for years, or kotakuinaction, etc). I really hope that Lemmy keeps with the general left-leaning vibes of the fediverse overall, hopefully being a good space for queer people, women, people of colour, etc.
I think you do have to be careful here though. If you’re too permissive you allow bigotry, but if you’re too restrictive you cut off honest, good faith debate and create echo chamber silos where beliefs are never challenged.
Bigotry should never be accepted but that means non-discriminatory opinions, especially ones you disagree with, should be allowed.
Good faith is the key here. I’m all for disagreements leading to lengthy discussions and even some controversy as long as everyone is arguing in good faith.
I can’t stand trolling, outright bigotry, and the normalization of literal fascist opinions as a mere “disagreement”. If a “disagreement” (you know which ones I mean) will lead to people dying if enabled, I’m pretty happy keeping those ideas out.
Gender critical ideas are based on truth and reality. If those ideas are censored here that would be terrible.
I’ve never understood the need to militantly oppose others’ personal situations when they have no impact on your own. Even playing devil’s advocate - what is the point of the hate? You don’t believe in gender identity, then don’t personally be trans. The fact that others may be would seem to have literally zero impact on you or your life. Why should Lemmy accommodate negativity that does real harm to people in sensitive circumstances?
Hi! I’m trans. If you’re looking to change your mind about that I’m happy to chat! Otherwise I suggest you look to get out of here as soon as possible.
Hi! I’m gender critical. If you’re looking to change your mind about that I’m happy to chat! Otherwise I suggest you look to get out of here as soon as possible.
That’s the beautiful thing about being a federated platform. You can create your own island and fill it with all the hatred and bad “science” you want. it’s worked for the British for centuries.
No hatred here. Just leave the kids and women spaces alone.
So you want censorship of opinions you disagree with? Sounds pretty fascist tbh.
When those views call for the dehuminization of others or are based on false information, yes.
A relatively small thing: the 500-comment viewing limit for normal accounts. So many times on Reddit I’ve been put off engaging with posts with 500+ comments knowing that nobody would see it. It’s stupid because comments are just text and unless the software design is absolutely terrible then simple text comments shouldn’t take up bandwidth at all.
Funny that Reddit pretends to be saving you bandwidth by not loading comments, but has no problem loading 100MB of javascript bloat.
the 500 comment limit made the concept of daily threads replacing common questions a killer on subs like r/fitness. “Has this question been asked before? Well, instead of being able to pull up several threads about this topic, I have to go through the daily threads of hundreds of days and search the comments for keywords - after increasing the number of comments visible from 200 to 500, and then still not being able to search all the comments on the 1000+ comment threads.” Just genuinely became unusable.
Thirsty comments. Puns. Meta humor. Dog language like “fren.” People who use the word “stonk.”
i literally got a dm saying “i’m horny” like 30 seconds ago… and there’s a pun like 6 comments below yours, and meta humor like 5 comments above yours.
what i mean is, lmao, if that’s what you think you’re getting away from, i’m sorry to inform you that you have failed :)
Reposts! The same 20 jokes being reposted on r/funny to the point that they’re no longer funny.
You don’t want reposts? How about 15 different c/funny communities across 15 different instances each with the exact same reposts.
I assume all those different communities are eventually going to be assimilated into 1 or 2 communities. Those that lack subscribers will eventually die out organically.
Me too. I just hope the algorithm will be smart enough to only show me those communities on my front page. Right now it is showing me everything and I have no idea if there’s any real algorithm deciding what shows up.
The power that the admins have. While most subreddit bans were justified, in my opinion, it just felt really off for them to have so much power.
Here admin has even more power, except it is limited to their own instance. So it is more on the user to be prepared. You don’t want to be too attached to your data on a single instance. The instance might be abandoned, down, gone; the admin might go crazy. And the solution isn’t to have the admin be more reasonable. The solution is to hedge your bets on multiple instances and multiple communities.
Mods locking threads because “y’all can’t behave” jfc just ban accounts breaking the rules and let the rest discuss
The reason they do this is so they don’t have to spend their entire life moderating a single thread.
Censorship. All the major subreddits became political echo-chambers. Reddit was founded on free speech and open discourse, especially when it was really uncomfortable. I’d love to see the same for Lemmy. Over the years I’ve seen authoritarianism creep into the moderation policies of most major subreddits. Today, even posting on the wrong subreddit is grounds for being banned from dozens of major subreddits. Even having a polite disagreement about, for example, anything to do with “trans,” is grounds for being banned.
So the one thing on Reddit that you wish to leave behind is mods deleting transphobic comments? Lol
So the one thing on Reddit that you wish to leave behind is mods deleting transphobic comments? Lol
Would you please quote where I wrote that?
Can you be more specific about the type of authoritarianisms you wish to avoid?
Many centrist are closet transphobes and often use the verbage of authoritarianism as a dog whistle.
I’m a centrist with a trans kid and no issues beyond worrying how they’ll be treated by transphobes
Being a centriphobe is still bigotry
“Being a centriphobe is still bigotry”
Generally it’s not bigotry when your critizes peoples choices. It’s usually reserved for things people can’t change. Like their race.
Example
“Centrist ideas are usually not well thought out”
See this isn’t bigotry because you could have better ideas.
I’m glad your good with your trans kid tho.
I definitely get what you mean and I think the idea that you can get away with no censorship is naive. However, they could just as easily be talking about r/conservatives use of conservative only posts and their banning of anyone sharing opposing viewpoints.
Anything to do with “trans”?
I’m sorry I’m not sure how else to describe it. Trans people are those who believe their sex doesn’t match how they feel inside.
I am aware of the concept of being transgender I am just wondering what your “polite disagreements” are with it
I’d say that a fairly debated topic related to transgender people, which isn’t just transphobes attacking people trying to live their own life, is the presence of transgender athletes in competitions. Some will take it as a personal attack whether you take a side or sit on the fence. I’m not looking to start that conversation here, but yeah. It’s definitely possible to hold a polite conversation about this while disagreeing on parts of the question. In a healthy space.
the presence of transgender athletes in competitions
I disagree, that isn’t a “polite disagreement” and is, absolutely, “just transphobes attacking people trying to live their own life” as you put it. Every time that “Argument” happens it’s openly done in biologically unfounded ways by people who simply don’t understand how our bodies actually work- yet those arguments get mass upvoted by people who also don’t understand how biology actually works and who believe that trans athletes get some insane, unfair advantage.
If you want to pass laws to restrict trans people from sports, then you want to pass laws to discriminate against trans people. That’s not really up for debate IMO, it’s a straight up fact; it’s what you’re doing when you advocate for laws that are not founded in science, that are specifically targeting a tiny minority for the chance that one of that tiny minority might beat cis athletes in an “unfair” way, you’re advocating for bigoted laws.
Such arguments are also inevietably filled with people misgendering trans people, deliberately calling trans women “men” and hiding behind the “I’m talking about biology” argument to do so.
Replace the word “trans” with “black” and you’ll find that people are making literally identical arguments to those against desegregating professional sports leagues 80 years ago. Literally word for word.
Every time that “Argument” happens it’s openly done in biologically unfounded ways by people who simply don’t understand how our bodies actually work.
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know how our bodies work, but I think explaining it will be more helpful in the long run than just making the subject taboo and banning everyone who asks it.
At the beginning of the pandemic a common argument against masks was “the virus is too small to be caught in a mask” - which made sense from a layman’s point of view. When people started explaining that masks did stop the water droplets the virus needs to be airborne - that argument become a lot less common.
Not everybody who has questions is “just asking questions”, if you catch my drift.
Not everybody who has questions is “just asking questions”, if you catch my drift.
I agree with that statement, context is everything.
I think that in the context of someone starting out going “it’s unfair for men to compete in women’s sports,” the person is “just asking questions.” That context poisons the well for questions.
But if someone comes in and makes a thread like “I don’t understand how hormone therapy works, can someone please explain it?” that, to me, is a good faith question and 100% should not be bannable.
Okay thanks for the input
I think that after HRT the difference is not that big. Trans athletes may even be at the disadvantage since there are some cis woman that have higher than average amount of testosterone.
In the long shot I think it would be for the best to abolish gender based separation altogether and replace it with something more like weight categories.
Consider two 5’6" 65kg athletes, one man and one woman, are you saying that the man doesn’t have an advantage?
I used to believe the same until I saw the recent Women’s Premier League in Cricket. They had to reduce the size of field and the weight of ball. Even with that, the fastest bowl in the tournament was 130kmph while that speed is considered a “slower ball” in men’s cricket.
Now some of these female cricketers earm more than any Pakistani male cricketers. Which is fair, bigger market, bigger payout. But female cricketers don’t stand a chance against the male cricketers
Consider two 5’6" 65kg athletes, one man and one woman, are you saying that the man doesn’t have an advantage?
No, my MMA teacher was female and she’d kick my arse regularly
They had to reduce the size of field and the weight of ball. Even with that, the fastest bowl in the tournament was 130kmph
Now you’re undermining your first point, you’re not comparing same heights and weight. Physics is real.
Here is a surprise for you: HRT actually does things to your body. I don’t think this should have been that hard to find on your own, but I can’t judge your circumstances.
There are things that don’t completely change with HRT (particularly when started after puberty.) Height, bone density, lung capacity, hand/foot/limb size etc. do not vary significantly after HRT and depending on the sport can make a huge difference (eg. Hand and foot size or lung capacity in swimming even where the two swimmers are the same height.)
Then we should allow people to access gender affirming treatment earlier, no?
No matter how politely stated your disagreement is, if it boils down to “I don’t think I should have to respect trans people’s identity”/“I don’t think trans people should have rights” then it’s transphobic and I’m 1000% fine with that being bannable
Even having a polite disagreement about, for example, anything to do with “trans,” is grounds for being banned.
A subreddit I moderate, /r/moderatepolitics, has had to do a delicate balancing act around this. There are site-wide rules banning many statements around trans people, and the red lines are not well defined. Reddit’s “Anti-Evil Operations” (site-wide moderation team) frequently swoops in and deletes comments that are offensive to trans people, but well within current political discourse in the US. That has undermined our mission of being a forum for diverse voices to hold productive but difficult discussions. At a certain point, we entirely banned the discussion of trans issues because one side was able to speak freely and the other side was walking on egg shells. I’m solidly pro-trans, but that’s no way to have a conversation.
This likely was done to try to keep Reddit from becoming a cesspool like the “free speech” sites like Gab, but it has turned out to be a lazy way that short circuits necessary conversations.
There is only one necessary converation around trans people, in which trans people say, Let us exist without being harassed or persecuted, and everyone else says, OK. Anything else is just allowing bigots a platform.
I wish the world worked that way, but in practice there are just too many ignorant people out there. They can walk out their front door and talk to their neighbors who are more than willing to pass on the latest slander about trans people. Our sub’s mission is to provide a space where they can try to pass on something resembling the latest slander and get push back. As-is, too much of the US is so segregated by ideology that people may not ever meet an out trans person. We want to foster those human-to-human connections instead of letting them rely on Tucker Carlson’s latest Very Concerned mouth diarrhea.
Edit: I value safe spaces for their function as a reprieve for trans people, and I don’t think every platform should provide a space for unrestricted speech. But at the same time, I think it’s beneficial to have some spaces that require a bare minimum of good behavior so that society can talk about these topics and move forward into a better future. There’s too much ignorance of trans people as-is.
a bare minimum of good behavior
See, the correct definition for this here is “no transphobia”
It’s cute that you think you can fight back against reactionary BS by arguing with it, but history does not bear this out. What you end up doing is creating another space where people can post Tucker Carlson’s latest Very Concerned mouth diarrhea, only distilled into a more toxic form that even Tucker couldn’t get away with, as long as they say it politely. Your way has led us here, to a political situation where people are actively trying to eradicate trans people in law.
Your way has led us here, to a political situation where people are actively trying to eradicate trans people in law.
Our sub’s way has largely not been followed in the US. Everyone’s retreated into their corner. Trans people have tried to keep safe, both physically and emotionally. Those hostile to them have cloaked their fear and hatred in the usual: family values and “think of the children”. The country is rife with tribalism. Different parts of the country have vastly different ways of thinking. There are fewer and fewer spaces dedicated to talking across ideologies, even closely related ones. We frequently hear that ours is one of the few spaces where people can talk over difficult issues without being shouted down.
I’m under no illusions that reactionaries just need to hear the right words and they’ll be enthusiastic supporters. But I have found that when forced out of their zone of comfort, their minds change inch by inch. Even just starting by not allowing the worst slander helps jolt them out of that mindset and filter out people who will never be interested in discussion. Civil rights are gained by winning hearts and minds of our fellow citizens. The LGBTQ rights movement has moved amazingly fast, with under 55 years having passed since the Stonewall Riots. We have moved this fast partially because LGBTQ people are harder to “other” because any family member or friend can turn out to be LGBTQ.
The thing that irritates me about this comment and the ideology your subreddit represents (well, the pertinent thing) is that the popular world “polarization” obfuscates the massive difference there is between radicalism and dogmatism. That is to say, when two people disagree politically, some people like to imagine for various reasons that their level of animosity is a function of how different their political views are plus some ability to compartmentalize. These things are factors, but ones that lead to political illiteracy on their own.
Dogmatism is the common word for having a circumscribed set of “correct beliefs” and being hostile to any deviation from that set. Radicalism is the sheer extremity of one’s views. It’s entirely possible to be a radical and to be accepting of people, and it’s quite easy to be both a centrist and a dogmatist. We know that second one because that describes a huge portion of the Democratic base! They are people with very little commitment to progressivism who nonetheless are deeply hostile to people on both their left as well as their right.
Of course, sometimes the two traits coincide, like in the Republicans, which have a massive portion of their base that is both pretty radical and pretty dogmatic – though ironically they could be said to be accepting in an extraordinarily cynical way, what with how Evangelicals supported Trump, who is literally the fakest Christian to ever be President (“Two Corinthians”).
Anyway, my point for saying this is that hucksters, useful idiots, and some who I’m sure are good people like to characterize American politics as a situation where there has been a sizable shift towards radicalism. There are new radical (QAnon) and “radical” (Bernie socdem) movements today as there are in any age, but overwhelmingly the Democrats have been getting more conservative if you look past their lip-service, while the Republicans have mostly also become more conservative. The world doesn’t need more centrists, the Democratic Party has plenty! When Obama said he’s “less liberal in a lot of ways” than Richard Nixon, that wasn’t his attempt at absurdist humor!
What would actually be useful is functional empathy and – god forbid – a political ideology that has some ability to explain why people have political differences beyond some puritanical insinuation about moral failings. That does not mean we need to be nihilistic or appeasing with our actual political ideology as though nothing is true or else the truth is the median of whatever everyone happens to believe right now.
Paraphrasing Lafayette, “If the world is divided between people who say 2 + 2 is 6 and those who say 2 + 2 is 4, that does not make it the most reasonable position that 2 + 2 is 5.”
If I was writing it, I’d probably say that the camps in America are “4+4 is 44” and “4+4 is 64”, with “4+4 is 54” being the Enlightened Centrist answer (and ironically perhaps the most deeply irrational).
The subreddit was somewhat poorly named. It’s not about “enlightened centrism,” as the insult from the left goes. The idea is to build a space where people with a fairly wide range of views can discuss those views without personal attacks. There are of course areas where different people will have different definitions of personal attacks, but for the most part we manage to keep a baseline of respect. What we’re not doing as moderators is deciding if 4+4 is 44, 64, 8, or a potato. Commenters talk that out and we keep them polite.
When Obama said he’s “less liberal in a lot of ways” than Richard Nixon, that wasn’t his attempt at absurdist humor!
Just for a little bit of context, Obama was griping that Fox and other right wing media was doing their usual “X Democrat is basically the avatar of Marxism” shtick. But the comparison with Nixon was not a good one. Nixon was constrained by a heavily Democratic Congress, while Obama was constrained by a lesser Republican House. Since Obama was comparing the outcomes of both administrations, his comparison looked at a Republican administration pushed hard to the left domestically with a Democratic administration push mildly to the right domestically.
That’s the same here unfortunately.
It also sucks when you’re not American, like Reddit auto-banned a load of Irish and Brits discussing stopping smoking due to the colloquial term there.
Unfortunately all these American-based websites really force the American views and positions on everyone.
Well that explains it. I’m not American either and I really feel like I’m being forced into their weird social war. I just want to talk about cool gadgets without some culture warrior banning me everywhere because I didn’t show the requisite fealty to whatever the current thing is.
Yeah, one thing I hope to leave behind with Reddit is every major subreddit farming outrage w.r.t. American politics.
It just became exhausting and made me unsub from a lot of the big subreddits. So far, Lemmy has been quite positive! It’s refreshing.
You were banned for transphobia but were jUsT AsKiNg qUestIons, amiright?
Turns out when people complain about being censored and “free speech” it’s because they got in trouble for not being able to call people the N word or becasue they want to “politely discuss” why certain people shouldn’t be allowed to exist.
We should never tolerate the intolerant.
